POWER

[xtzrick]

1600 asked me this on another thread, thought it better to start a new thread

"Any thoughts Rick, suggestions, whateva, on better carbs?

Has anyone fitted something differenet than the "so-so must" of Raptor atv BSR33 carbs? (or BST...cant remember now...)

For example, what about a donation from the latest TTR600 (1998-...conventional forks), that uses 2x30mm Teikei, instead of the classic 27mm of the almost entire XT range?

Should there be a benefit?...wondering..."

1600, 1st off I'm assuming you want to change carbs for more power, hence the title of the thread.

If the carbs are the biggest restriction then bigger carbs will give you more power, providing you can jet them properly.
If the air box, filter, manifold rubbers, exhaust, head etc. are a bigger restriction then bigger carbs won't have much effect.

The BSR33s are CV carbs which don't flow as well as conventional slide carbs, the 33mm bores probably flow the same as 27-28mm slides.
Have you heard they are better?

Are you sure about the 30mm TTR600 bore sizes?
The CV side of my 660 has a 35mm bore
The problem I have with teikei carbs is lack of info on needles & needle jets, you can get different size pilot & left carb main jets but I've never been able to find out teikeis' formula for needle tapper. Don't know what 600s are like but my 660 is quite sensitive to needle clip posission making it hard to get descent fuelling, knowing different needle tappers would make it easier (with the help of a lambda meter )

34mm smooth bore/flat slide mikunis & keihiens are popular with MZ & SZR660 riders but they're not cheap.

When I had more cash I wanted a SZR to tune for track days & hooning about, thought about fuel injection, even whittled a lump of alley to take flat slides I was going to use as throttle bodies.


Running out of money might have been a good thing, saving me a lot of head ache.

Rick

[Mezo]

Id say valve size is pretty important question, is there a difference between XT600`s & the TTR600?

MXRob over on Thumpertalk did a fuel injection project on his DR650 using a Megasquirt system, its a long thread but worth reading if you like that sort of thing.

[youtube]N93vF8NfhF0[/youtube]

It was Rob who first who used the GSXR can on a trail bike & he`s the reason they are hard to find now.

EDIT: Forgot to mention the Kawasaki ZZR, GPX and EX 250's cabs fit & apparently and are bigger than standard (and cheap).
Luke here in Brisbane fitted a set to his Tenere (on my old ADV thread) he had problems at 4000RPM & never did get round to sorting it before he sold the bike on.

Mezo.

[xtzrick]

MXRob over on Thumpertalk did a fuel injection project on his DR650 using a Megasquirt system, its a long thread but worth reading if you like that sort of thing.

Mezo.

What a fantastic read & project that is

Even recognised & understood some of the terminology
I didn't see a final solution to the MAP problem but as megasquirt is an on going project, it's just a matter of time.
Good luck to him

Don't know whether to thank or curse you for posting that Mezo, really got me thinking now (probably more like dreaming in reality ).

Thanks anyway

Rick

[Mezo]

Well i understood most of it but got lost on some stuff, its certainly the bible on fuel injecting a thumper.
Richy (me old mate in Perth) has put a 780cc kit on his DR650, its got my old ported head on it & goes like the clappers.

Imagine if he FI`d that beast, its only 20cc of the biggest thumper out there the DR800 DR BIG.

We managed to get 54hp (from memory) out of Richy`s bike when he had the old 720cc kit on there.

Mezo.

[1600]

Rick, the hype about the "Raptor 660 carbs BSR33" among the various 660 Yamaha engines is wellknown.

I have no clue at all, just researching. I 've picked up a -rare- bargain for 1500 euro, 2003 MZ 660 Baghira StreetMoto, almost brandnew (14.000 KMs). Due to low sales (at least here in Greece) it's a generally cheap as a used bike. People do not bother with an East German motorcycle manufacturer, who used to build 2T engines in his entire life, so it didnt sell as a "hot cookie", although it has the bulletproof Yamaha XTZ660 engine (with plenty of potential) and some better components for brakes, suspension, wheels...plus...an awesome rigid "gothic" frame.

"Problem" is, the previous owner was more than satisfied with the (heavy as a rock) stock "extra restrictive" exhaust, and with the stock carbs that finally manage to choke the engine and ideally handles the...Euro 145!!!...Emmision Standards...you know...the one that will be applied in year 2034

As a result, I drove my bike for the "technical check" (like MOT, TUV, etc) and the emissions were double as high!!! to get a picture...that special sensor tool (with the nozzle in the exhaust) was totally black out (literally and metaphorically)

Pure black smoke.....luckily for me, the guy there gave me a chance to recheck next day -only the emissions and for free- after I 've been suggested to take on a "serious" ride with my bike and let her rev high through the gears. "Consider it done". told the friendly guy and became (for a few minutes) as young as I could on our ring road of my city Job was done, and I even rechecked it the same day and I finally took my approval for the next 2 years.

It's a nice bike, a really nice one, indeed, but she just needs some help to Breathe (do it like Prodigy). And yes Rick, you are right...I am now hunting a set of Dual Mikuni TM34 (flatslide). I think its the only Real Deal, instead of the stock ones.

Just wanted to share and exchange infos with a more experienced than me, for the "sleeping beast". I am about to order a larger headpipes exhaust (manifolds), | will use my spare YZF 1000 Leovince carbon can, and only thing I miss is some descent carbs. I think the TM34-B65 will serve me well...to releash the hidden power from the Yamaha heart...

[xtzrick]

Well done with your purchase
MZ still had the same stigma about them over here as well, bike snobbery

I've not seen much on the Raptor carbs, not looking in the right places, but you are right to look at the other forums that use the 660 engine. There's a lot of info out there.

Apparently the 34mm mikunis bolt straight on, no idea how they deal with the different size rubber mounts


Careful with the pluming, don't follow "Breathe" with "Fire Starter"

How far do you intend to go with tuning?

Rick

P.S. When I take my girlfriends car for it's MOT I have to thrash it in 3rd on the way there to get it through the emissions test, just hope she doesn't find out.

[1600]

How far do you intend to go with tuning?

...hopefully...not far away...I 'll stick with the classic, the usual (exhaust-carbs) since the engine is brand new (14.000 KMs) and would be a same to start tinckering about "camshafts, big bore high compression pistons, etc". It's not only a matter of wasting money on an already healthy motor, but mostly, I dont want to walk the same path as with my (very recent) XT 600 rebuild. I just wanna ride my bike and enjoy.

PS. I am sure that whatever rational explain you try to give her about the "needs" of a car, to continue run properly, she still will yell at you that "you are a careless biker and that you drive cars like a bike".....bet on it

[xtzrick]

you drive cars like a bike

You know her then, where did you meet?

It's the filtering through traffic that scares her, ok on the bike though

Rick

[Eric66]

I saw a MZ Baghira at the local bike shop yesterday, shit it sits high, I am 6'3" and could only touch the ground with my toes when I sat on it. Looks like a fun bike.
Regards Eric

[Mezo]

Watch this guy on his fuel injected XT600 @ 180k, watch the rev counter.

[youtube]L2z0MgtUC5g[/youtube]

Its actually 673cc if you follow his other vids, sure does have a fast pick up.

[youtube]JZyRb2cFVcQ[/youtube]

Mezo.