slightly odd neutral problem

[cadno]

I have a 1VJ which is approaching completion after a rebuild from boxes.
It starts and runs but only if the neutral switch is disconnected or you start it with the bike in gear i.e. neutral light out
I have bridged the clutch lever switch so that isn't effecting it. If you remove the bridge wire it won't start and if you remove the neutral relay it won't start so by elimination I don't think it's either of those.
If you run without the neutral switch connected the bike starts fine.
The neutral switch currently fitted works as its supposed to do, i.e. green light on the dash when the gearbox is in neutral, light off when in gear.
I have bought a new neutral switch just in case but don't think that's the issue.
Any suggestions?

[motorang]

You can check with the safety feature schematic here:



You want to look at the blue/yellow wire at the CDI and follow that.

This blue/yellow wire from CDI has to connect to ground to switch the CDI on.

Basically, the Kill switch next to the START button disconnects it wenn set to OFF.

Next in line is the side stand switch, if the side stand is DOWN.

You can override the side stand switch by putting neutral in OR pulling the clutch which will send juice to the breaker relais for the ignition circuit to release ignition. The control side of the relais is powered by the brown wire (as the neutral light is).

So both clutch switch and neutral switch will cause the relais to permit ignition.

Is the neutral light a stock bulb or did you fit something else for testing? If the bulb draws more current than it should (maybe shorting somewhere), there may not be enough left for the relais to work properly. Or it is a cable issue there.

Andy

[cadno]

thanks Andy
I'll print that off and have a closer look.
My 1VJ doesn't have the side stand cut off switch or any brackets to suggest there has been one.
The kill switch works as it should, if you use it when running it switches the engine off, if you switch to off the motor won't start.
The green neutral light is the original one.
Must be a wiring issue, closer inspection needed.
BR Dan

[cadno]

Update.
With some time off I've had a closer look at this.
I've stripped the loom back to find out more.
It appears some one has removed the neutral relay and neatly put the light blue, brown and blue wires associated with it back into the loom.
So I only have one blue and yellow wire from the CDI going directly to the blue and white on the starter switch.
The blue wire from the CDI isn't connected to anything.
I've tried to find the return wire from the clutch switch, would this work if I attached it to blue wire on the CDI? It appears to be just an earth wire.
Or do I have to reinstate the neutral relay arrangement to get the bike to start with a neutral light showing?
At the moment everything works as it should if you disconnect the neutral switch and bridge the clutch switch connection.

Any information gratefully received

[jim]

Hi Cadno and Motorang,

I am still confused about how the clutch switch allows the starter circuit relay to operate. I understand that the relay always has 12V connected, and just needs the other side of the relay coil to be connected to ground to allow the starter motor to be operated

I can understand that the neutral switch will allow this connection to ground ,so bike electric start can operate when not in gear, engine run on, start button pushed.

If bike is in gear does the clutch switch allow the required connection to ground through the CDI box?

I need to dig into the wiring harness to see how it is actually wired up, but before I do it would be good to know how it should work.

I have stalled the bike a couple of times at junctions. Will not start in gear with clutch pulled in, and can be difficult to find neutral without rocking the bike.

Thanks Jim

[cadno]

as an update...
I've reinstated the wiring as it should be, ie with the removed relay back in.
Guess what, it's exactly the same as it was before. It will only start if the neutral light isn't on. So at the moment I've just removed the neutral wire from the switch.
I'd really love to have some time, or somebody with greater ability then me to sort it.
It's really doing my head in......

[Hodgo1981]

This might sound a bit crazy, but I often find wierd electric issues is a bad earth. Maybe the earth from the instrument cluster isnt good, and something like your speedo backlight is actually feeding electricty through the neutral light to the neutral switch, and using the neutral switch as your earth?