Fork Springs

nop
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Fork Springs

Post by nop »

We are all familiar with XTs floppy front end. The usually suggested bodges are use a heavier oil for more dampening, increase the pre-load to make the fork sit higher and increase the air pressure to increase the spring rate of the air chamber. Unfortunately the sad truth is, these are all bodges for getting around one fact. The XT600 (43f in my case, I cannot really speak for the other models although I imagine they are the same.) is woefully under sprung. What it REALLY needs is a new set of front springers suited to a riders weight. Unfortunately, no one, not even Yamaha made alternative springs.

After measuring the stock springs on my 43f (I believe they are stock but I really do not know for certain) I plugged the values into a online spring rate calculator.

It should be noted though, AFAIK the 43f came with progressive springs or, to be more specific; dual rate springs. They have 44 total coils, 50% of which are 4.15mm apart. My measurements are below.

Length: 462.5mm
OD: 34.75mm
ID: 26mm
Wire diameter: 4.15mm
Total coils: 44
Close coils: 23
Wide coils: 21
Close coil spacing: 4.15mm
Wide coil spacing: 9.48mm


As we are effectively dealing with 2 springs here we have to calculate the rates separately then calculate the resultant rates. Spring 1, the 'narrow' spring; the soft one.

Code: Select all

Loads & Rates
  True Maximum Load, True Fmax : 	655.802 N
  Maximum Load Considering Solid Height, Solid Height Fmax : 	407.051N
  Spring constant (or Spring rate), k : 	4.458N/mm
Safe Travel
  True Maximum Travel, True Travelmax : 	147.094 mm
  Maximum Travel Considering Solid Height, Solid Height Travelmax : 	91.300 mm
Physical Dimensions
  Diameter of spring wire, d: 	4.150 mm
  Outer diameter of spring, Douter : 	34.750 mm
  Inner diameter of spring, Dinner : 	26.450 mm
  Mean diameter of spring, Dmean : 	30.600 mm
  Free length of spring, Lfree : 	190.900 mm
  Number of active coils, na : 	23
  Number of total coils, nT : 	23
  Solid height, Lsolid : 	99.600 mm
  Type of ends: 	open ends
  Spring index, C : 	7.373
  Distance between coils, Coilpitch: 	8.120 mm
  Rise angle of coils: 	4.83 
Image

Then the hard one:

Code: Select all

Loads & Rates
  True Maximum Load, True Fmax : 	655.802 N
  Maximum Load Considering Solid Height, Solid Height Fmax : 	655.802N
  Spring constant (or Spring rate), k : 	4.883N/mm
Safe Travel
  True Maximum Travel, True Travelmax : 	134.303 mm
  Maximum Travel Considering Solid Height, Solid Height Travelmax : 	134.303 mm
Physical Dimensions
  Diameter of spring wire, d: 	4.150 mm
  Outer diameter of spring, Douter : 	34.750 mm
  Inner diameter of spring, Dinner : 	26.450 mm
  Mean diameter of spring, Dmean : 	30.600 mm
  Free length of spring, Lfree : 	271.600 mm
  Number of active coils, na : 	21
  Number of total coils, nT : 	21
  Solid height, Lsolid : 	91.300 mm
  Type of ends: 	open ends
  Spring index, C : 	7.373
  Distance between coils, Coilpitch: 	12.736 mm
  Rise angle of coils: 	7.55 
Image


Then calculate the initial rate which is:

rate=((rate1*rate2)/(rate1+rate2))
=((4.88*4.45)/(4.88+4.45))
=2.3N/mm

So before the 'close wound' coil has become coil bound, the front forks have a rate of 2.3N/mm. I think a kx80 has harder springs than that!

How much travel is subject to this ludicrously low spring rate? That one is a little tougher as it depends on how much pre-load you are running. If I recall correctly the metal pre-load tubes in the 43f fork are 110mm long, however, the springs do not extend to the top of the tubes. So F' knows exactly how much pre-load is on them but we can make some conservative guesses. The distance between the coils on the close wound spring is 4.15mm, the wider wound spring 9.48mm that is ~43%. For the close wound spring to become coil bound the distance between the wider wound coils must reduce by 43%. Thus, at 43% of the springs free length the close wound spring will be coil bound leaving the fork subject to the second rate exclusively which was shown above to be ~4.88N/mm.

The 43f has a 462.5mm spring. It is completely Coil bound at (91.3mm+99.6mm) 190.9mm. Actually it is more like 182mm, the above numbers were lightly fudged (engineering term) to get the calculator to treat all the coils as active coils. These are not open ended springs but closed and ground. So the spring has a potential travel of 279.5mm. The XT600 has fork travel of 254mm. This leaves 0-25.5mm for pre-load adjustments. Finally with the crossover at 43%, the fork becomes stiffer at 109mm compression (including your pre-load value). Assuming you have a ~30% sag, this means only the first ~33mm is subject to the lower rate).

PHEW! That was a lot and this does not even take into account the rising rate of the air chamber spring above the oil! In short, the front end is under sprung and too floppy, which we all knew anyway!

So what can we do?

Well my first suggestion would be chop the closely wound spring off the top, this would cause the initial rate to be 4.88N/mm, a far more reasonable value. Unfortunately this would cause issues with the fork becoming coil bound. If you had a spare pair of springs, you could chop the wide wound sections of both of them and make a new 462mm spring by stacking them with a washer but that requires you to acquire a second set of springs anyway!

I would wager that an xr250r (1997) with 41mm fork spring would work, they are allegedly 35mm OD and 536mm long. Asfar as I can tellthe stock spring was 0.39kg/mm. If you were to chop off 74mm so you could fit it in the tube you would end up with a nice linear rate ~16% stiffer at 0.45kg/mm which is more like what we need.


There are aftermarket springs available from Hagon, Hyperpro and Wilburs with the following rates:

Make/Model Part number Rate
Hyperpro

XT600E (90-94) SP-YA06-SSA009 6-11 N/mm
XT600 (86-90) SP-YA06-SSA027 3.3-4.4 N/mm
XT600(3AJ) 88> SP-YA06-SSA010 5-11 N/mm

Wilburs
XT600 (85-90) 600-0099-00 4.1-5.9N/mm

These are all I have found so far. The rates came from asking the companies listed what the spring rates were. Hagon never got back to me.


*all of this is on the same level as my usual kind of bodgery, while I believe it to be correct, do not blame me if you end up impaling a testicle while trying to chop an xr spring with an angle grinder only to find my calculations were bogus.
Last edited by nop on Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
nop
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Re: Fork Springs

Post by nop »

[Reserved for future use!] :fan:
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Re: Fork Springs

Post by Mezo »

nop wrote:[Reserved for future use!] :fan:
Stickied for future use more like, nice one NOP. :congrats:

Mezo.
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Re: Fork Springs

Post by phil w »

Its a bit too technical for me, so I am going to invest in some Hyperpro springs Im thinking as they've got to be much better than whats on there
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Re: Fork Springs

Post by nop »

Assuming you have a XT600e, they are 6-11N/m which is pretty hard.
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Re: Fork Springs

Post by phil w »

Well Im guessing pretty hard will be much better for me, as when I hit my first greenlane on saturday the front forks were banging under me doing nothing more than 20 mph and the lanes were'nt overly harsh either... bearing in mind Im 115kgs plus kit firmer springs will be better for me
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Re: Fork Springs

Post by tall-mike »

Ouch I didn't know I was under-sprung until I just read this post, now my trail riding will be at an even slower pace. Blue haired old ladies already flip me the bird when they pass me on the freeway. :shades: :fall:
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When changing so complete

Post by bosley1980 »

I replaced the original (standard) for HYPERPRO (In 2012). And I'm very happy.
The motorcycle is not so much soft, but the ride is still comfortable.


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My product on the exchange
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Springs from the left (year of manufacture) 1989, 1998, 2012.

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The forks disappeared = 150 mm pipes are not required (according to the manufacturer's instructions).

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DONE - one afternoon :star:
Last edited by bosley1980 on Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Fork Springs

Post by tall-mike »

Totally cool upgrade Bosley, Only 289 dollars U.S.,but they don't have these parts listed for a 1989 Xt600, only a 1989 Xt600Z.Would this work on a 2kf (2nf)? Also at 250 pounds,wouldn't stiffer spring set-up be needed? :scratch:
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Re: Fork Springs

Post by bosley1980 »

tall-mike wrote:Totally cool upgrade Bosley, Only 289 dollars U.S.,but they don't have these parts listed for a 1989 Xt600, only a 1989 Xt600Z.Would this work on a 2kf (2nf)? Also at 250 pounds,wouldn't stiffer spring set-up be needed? :scratch:
Aks HYPERPRO at (http://www.hyperpro.com/hyperpro/en/node/123) or info@hyperpro.com
I'm ordering it in action "http://www.bikerscrown.cz/" price was lower by tax :rofl: good buy (252 USD - Januar 2012)
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