Shifting from First to Second gear "Problem"

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Jannaruto
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What Bike or Bikes Do You Own?: x2 Yamaha TW200 1993
x2 Yamaha TW125
x1 Yamaha XTZ660 Ténéré 1992

Shifting from First to Second gear "Problem"

Post by Jannaruto » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:59 am

Hey guys,

Nice to e-meet you, I am new to the forum :D
I have a very specific question if you guys could help me
I have this XTZ660 1992, beautiful bike
Purchased with 11000km on it, and the dealer was a very professional guy, checked the whole bike, changed oil, filters, cleaned carburetor etc
I am noticing this issue now, at 13000km, I haven't noticed before because I was so excited to drive the bike that I didn't care that much of some small issues (which I already fixed like non working odometer, too high idle speed etc)
Basically when I go from First gear to Second it is always kinda difficult
Sometime it is stiff to change, or sometime it makes clearly two clacks, so when it goes into neutral and then goes into Second gear or sometime when I am pushing the bike hard, I THINK I shifted but actually the bike is in neutral so I basically rise the RPM for nothing, pull again the lever and switch into second
I notice a bit less issues clutchless shifting, ok the bike kinda jump forward since first is kinda of a long gear but the gear pretty much enter always
Also I noticed that at 3000rpm the shifting is always very smooth without issues or in general at low speed or when the bike is cold, so basically when I turn on the bike and start moving

All the other gears are super fine and going from Second to First is super fine too, very smooth and very soft on the pedal, the only isue is going from First to Second
I started to play around with Idle speed setting and clutch lever freeplay to ensure that there is enough disangagement or something similar, still the "issue" is there, I also lubricated all the cables and joints relative to the clutch lever and cable to make sure the operation is as smooth as possible

What do you think is the cause? Also the little triangle on the engine (that you pivot pulling the clutch) how much should move? When pulling fully the clutch it should point maybe at a 90 degree angle relative to the engine? I am worried maybe that clutch cable could be just a tad longer and so not completely disengaging the clutch? Would be strange to be honest infact I even tried to put a freeplay on the lever so minimum that at the point I touch the lever it will disengage clutch disks (just for 1km, I know I can burn the discs) but still sometime this 1-to-2 shifting is not as smooth as it should be so I assume that cable length is fine

I let a mechanic friend of mine test it, he does motorbiking professionally and for racing since he was basically born, he had a drive on my bike and sais he didn't notice any issue and the shifting seems fine, I could even hear him shifting near me, no strange noises and he never misses a shifting

At this point is my feet and I don't know how to shift? I even lowered the shifting lever so I do not have to rise my feet that much and have more leverage, I am not going to him again soon since he is always too gentle, never asks money from me and he spend often a lot of time talking with me even if he has work, so I do not feel very comfortable causing issue to his job

I should also mention I changed again my oil, last week, with Motul 5100, just to make sure a good oil is in there and exclude another possibility

Playing with Idle RPM from 1000 to 1500, seems that is not related to that, I come from the TW200 experience, if the idle speed is not set correctly sometimes gears can be hard to insert, so I tought maybe the Tenere is the same but seems no...

Another thing I can say is this, when I shift from 1-to-2 and the issue arise I can hear as said the clunk of going from 1 to N and from N to 2, almost like I am "waiting" the gears tooth to align, all happens of course in like 0,5 seconds, but still super noticeable
Dismount the whole engine seems not doable now considering work and personal life, so I am running out of ideas...

jibber
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Re: Shifting from First to Second gear "Problem"

Post by jibber » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:21 pm

If its ok for your mechanic mate and only you experiencing the problem, its unlikely going to be mechanical (i would have thought), maybe just your riding style needs adapting to suit.

Jannaruto
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What Bike or Bikes Do You Own?: x2 Yamaha TW200 1993
x2 Yamaha TW125
x1 Yamaha XTZ660 Ténéré 1992

Re: Shifting from First to Second gear "Problem"

Post by Jannaruto » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:10 am

In which way I should adapt?
If I try to shift slowly, like pulling the lever, wait maybe few moments and then shift it gets way worse, the second gear will enter only after like 1 second of keeping the shift lever pushed up with my feet, as fast as I shift the better, but I am reaching a point where in city traffict I end up with "cramps" at the feet/leg

stevep10
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What Bike or Bikes Do You Own?: 2009 GTR1400
1992 XTZ750
1971 Suzuki F50 Cutlass
1975 Yamaha RS100
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Location: Birmingham UK

Re: Shifting from First to Second gear "Problem"

Post by stevep10 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:12 am

I have known a similar problem on other bikes that was caused by the owner having a heavy foot. By that I mean being too quick changing gear before having the lever pulled fully in. I for one paid a heavy price in that respect on my zzr1100. It cost me 3 new shifter forks in the gearbox at £90 each because I had worn out the dog ears on them, plus a new 2nd/3rd gear cog. Luckily I can do all the work myself so no labour costs involved.
If shifting is easier at or above 3000rpm, then I would hazard a guess at the dogs are worn. The other thing you can check is the thickness of the clutch plates, both friction and metal plates, wether any plates are warped through heat, and if they are in the right order in the basket.

Jannaruto
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What Bike or Bikes Do You Own?: x2 Yamaha TW200 1993
x2 Yamaha TW125
x1 Yamaha XTZ660 Ténéré 1992

Re: Shifting from First to Second gear "Problem"

Post by Jannaruto » Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:39 am

Thanks for the reply
The dealer that sold me the bike had a very professional mechanic with them, very very professional one
My father happened to be there while he was checking my bike, he dismounted the Whole engine, he was doing correctly his job, so clutch plates are fine
Tho I don't know maybe how to shift... I notice that if I shift slowly the problem gets worse...As said tho with cold bike the problem is VERY VERY rare to happen, and the shifting goes directly from first to second gear in a very smooth motion and without a single noise

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